I am a lifetime deer hunter and have used bolt, lever and pump action rifles. Using the Hodgdon online Data Center, with 100-grain bullets across 12 propellants used in both cartridges, the Roberts averaged 140 fps (less than 5 percent) slower than the .25-06. load detailed above is a very strong one. The wildcat became the .25 Roberts, honoring its lead developer, Maj. Ned H. Roberts, a well-known outdoor writer and experimenter. I like them for other reasons, and some get lucky, but a person shouldn't expect it. Tht said, I've not seen any that shoot REALLY bad. It features a straight-grained walnut Id also suggest carefully cleaning the bore, Ive seen several rifles with copper fouled bores that shot like crap before having the bores cleaned ,shoot far smaller groups once cleaned carefully. The current SAAMI spec for the .257 Roberts Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) is 54,000 psi. Remington, Winchester and others offer unprimed cases for the .257 Roberts. I realize that setting a KPS of 15 as a baseline power standard for the .30-30 load is a judgment call, but I am comfortable with it. Remingtons .25 Remington cartridge (1906) was badly outclassed in 1915 by the popular .250 Savage. Less than a decade later, the Niedner Rifle Company | Incidentally, data developed with spherical powders should not be reduced below their starting charge weights, or erratic ignition and pressures can occur. lbs., MPBR = 265 yards (Zero at 225 yards). 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. M. Joined: Jan 2017. My grandfather built me a .257 Roberts as my first deer rifle and started my love affair with this cartridge long ago, California hunter John Smith told MeatEater. I have a tang safety M77 in the Roberts, and mine is very accurate. However, before Henry could justify offering the Long Ranger in .257 Roberts, they would have to be convinced that hunters would buy it. some bullets grouped better than others, and most loads were accurate The cartridge was designed to be a versatile round that could be used for both hunting and target shooting. the .257 Roberts - A nice combination cartridge that's low recoil and works on most game from varmint to elk. It was developed by gun writer and experimenter N.H Roberts in the 1920s and 30s, so its not a stretch to assume the cartridge has been around for nearly 100 years. It seemed that the company was testing acceptance of such a reissued New factory rifle options are even more limited. broke at 3.25 pounds right out of the box. For a performance comparison, lets put current .257 Roberts +P handloads next to its more modern challenger, the .25-06 Remington (1969). The hottest commercial .243 Winchester load I can find is quoted as driving a 100 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3120 f.p.s. Those who reflect on the decline of the .257 Roberts as a significant heavy varmint and light big game cartridge almost always credit (or blame) the .243 Winchester. popular, but its not dead. The solid top receiver comes with Weaver type scope bases already mounted at the factory, which eliminates the need for a front sight that can catch on brush and branches. have him try free floating the barrel. More importantly, the cartridge was specified for a mild maximum average pressure (MAP) of 45,000 CUP (a bad move). I mentioned earlier that the .257 Roberts has a reputation for being a mild shooting cartridge. classification system uses an online calculator to produce a numerical HITS score for rifle cartridge loads. In naming the cartridge, Remington gave proper credit to its inventor by calling it the .257 Roberts. It balances between the hands and points naturally. 100 grain flatbase MAY be ok. New Ruger. (The explanation of these indexes is abbreviated here, but is more fully discussed in the Appendix.). While its been eclipsed in recent years by sexier, faster, bigger cartridges, its still worth a look if youre in the market for a new deer gun. from Benchmark to IMR-7828. It became quite popular; however, just 21 years after being officially introduced, the .243 Winchester appeared and competed very effectively as a dual-purpose cartridge and ultimately became more popular. Through careful load development, its performance and versatility can be significantly increased. Remember, this is from rifles with 20 inch barrels. Load data for 37 loads in caliber .257 Roberts with .257 | 117gr | Hornady InterLock RN bullet including underlying parameters such as bullet length, cartridge length and case capacity. If (and only if) that is the case then the barrel is short (20") and the contour is very thin*. was the deciding factor of a host cartridge later to bear his name. Select handloads reached over 2,900 fps and groups were very good from the Ruger rifle. Fi. Ultimately, it is important to choose a caliber that you are comfortable with and that you feel confident will be effective for the game you plan to pursue. I believe this would be a great rifle/cartridge package for hunting deer, pronghorn and similar game. Its been understandably eclipsed by more effective modern cartridges, but its Goldilocks combination of attributes should earn it a spot in gun safes of hunters for years to come. In the years since, most other ammunition manufacturers have followed suit, including Hornady (117-grain SST at 2,946 fps), Federal Cartridge (Nosler 120-grain Partition at 2,800 fps) and NoslerCustom (100-grain Partition or Ballistic Tip bullets and the 110-grain AccuBond all at 3,000 fps, or the 115-grain Ballistic Tip at 2,800 fps). The Mossberg 500 Pump Action Shotgun is one of the most popular home defense shotguns on the market. ), 100 yard KPS = 23.2 (Energy = 1771 ft. In addition to a smaller neck, the wildcat had a shallower 15-degree shoulder angle and a slightly shorter case. If you are looking for a round that can do it all, the 257 Roberts is an excellent choice. I decided against it (fortunately for you and my editors), but if theres any caliber that deserves its own ode, its the .22 Long Rifle (LR). I'm sure I'll get toasted, but if somebody is looking for "accuracy", a Ruger ain't the way to go. load of 41.0 grains under a 100-grain bullet, and I tried it with a To begin the ballistic analysis of the loads, I used the point blank range calculator at www.shooterscalcualtor.com to calculate a +/- 3 inch maximum point blank range (MPBR) for the load. So far, Boddington's Dakota .257 Roberts produces its best groups with Remington 100-grain round-nose Core-Lokt, not the most ideal hunting load for a flat-shooting cartridge. Roberts, in his initial attempt in designing this new cartridge, wanted The exception will include spherical powder loads, which should not be reduced below the suggested start loads or hang fires, erratic ignition and potentially high pressures can occur. I wound up with more than a dozen powders to test, A nearly 6-degree difference in shoulder angle should complicate, if not prevent, chambering and firing commercial ammo in the wildcat chamber. Continue with Recommended Cookies, The .257 Roberts: its Potential as a Deer Cartridge in the Henry Long Ranger Rifle. The Roberts is not a puny quarter-bore cartridge! They are plenty good for what I need. MV (24 inch barrel). Its perfect.. just under 250 yards. (22 inch barrel), ME 2162 ft. The early Roberts exceeded velocities of the .250 Savage by roughly 200 fps. Niedner and L.C. They are tougher than older 117- to 120-grain bullets and can penetrate as deeply while having a higher launch velocity. SAAMI members reached an agreement to set a new +P headstamp designator for several cartridges to denote higher-pressure loadings. charge weight and trickled up accordingly. Vintage RCBS dies and CCI BR-2 primers were used to develop load data. It is also a popular choice for long-range target shooting. Recently, the renewed . However, for milder cartridges, such as the .30-30 Winchester, there are range limits beyond which the effectiveness of vital area hits become questionable. (22 inch barrel). : 3,453 3,671 Press. of Israeli Defense Forces, joins David Fortier for an exclusive interview for Shotgun News. Roberts went to work while considering Manns views on the subject. The furtherest distance at which a load has enough energy to achieve the baseline KPS value is its maximum "Effective Killing Range" (EKR) for Class 2 game animals (assuming a vital area hit). With bullets weighing 115 to 120 grains, I found seven data points where the same propellant was tested in both cartridges. lbs., MPBR = 275 yards (Zero at 235 yards). that no man ever spent so much time in perfecting a cartridge as Mr. the information in the brochure " is still not ready for publication." (Assuming a +1.5 inch line of sight.) It's not a screamer and it's not a slowpoke. For a given load, the formula is: KPS at y yards = (Impact Energy at y yards) x (sectional density x cross-sectional area), or simply: My judgment is that an adequate KPS value for hunting deer and similar Class 2 game is KPS 15. No matter what i did to that gun, it was not accurate. The resulting MPBR (265 yards) gave me an unambiguous measure of the practical range of the load. Then, I rearranged the KPS formula to solve for E, with KPS set at the baseline value of 15.0 and (SD x A) = .0112 for the 100 grain .243 bullet. can help. Back home, I called the Winchester public relations office. The .25-06 was essentially a long-action 257 Roberts on steroids Because of these two cartridges the sale Of factory rifles chambered for the Roberts dwindled Still enough interest has remained for Ruger to keep the cartridge available in the Model 77 while other manufacturers have offered a particular model chambered in "Bob" for a few years. These recoil figures can be adjusted with heavier or lighter bullets, of course, but when using the most common factory loads, the .257 Roberts is among the lightest-recoiling cartridges capable of taking game out to 500 yards. . The bullet is very stable in flight, so it will retain its accuracy even at long range. guns.Elmer Keith was another .257 Roberts supporter of sorts. (Ret.) which this could make that much of a difference on a medium-framed Recoil is moderate, ammo is (usually) available, and new and used firearms are still chambered in the old wildcat. It remains a popular choice among hunters and shooters alike. ), 275 yd. grains for a velocity of around 3,400 fps. . hunting loads tell the same story. I sold the first one long before I discovered that a 100 grain TSX would shoot MOA groups in the MKII - but nothing else would! Swift bullet. Roberts spent on this one.. new, unfired brass. If we take the Roberts with a 100-grain bullet at 3,000 Recoil is moderate, ammo is (usually) available, and new and used firearms are still chambered in the old wildcat. Try the old Roberts bullet. Lighter bullets from 75 to 90 grains included hollowpoint, For comparison, the .30-06 has a MAP of 60,000 psi. : Doubletap 100 gr. The Roberts offers no real handloading challenges. ), 265 yard KPS = 15.9 (Energy = 1235 ft. For comparison, the .30-06 has a MAP of 60,000 psi. (20 inch barrel), ME 1943 ft. Perhaps it is due for a comeback, spurred by being offered in a modern lever action rifle. Its trigger Beyond that, the trajectory of the bullet starts to drop off sharply, making it more difficult to hit your target. from a 24 inch barrel. Manage Settings Its my go-to round, he said. Joseph Von Benedikt is with Jorge Spat to learn all about it. The .257 Roberts (right) is based on a necked down 7x57 Mauser case (left). 257 Roberts is a very popular hunting caliber here in Texas. (The .243 was offered in the Winchester Model 70 and other fine rifles, while the .244 was offered in the clunky Remington Model 722.) Bullet velocity is not neglected, because velocity is the most important factor in calculating kinetic energy. Whitetail hunting strategies for the next generation. The downrange data are needed to do hunting capability index calculations. I may hold my nose and stick with the .243. . With most suitable powder charges for the Roberts containing around 35.0 to 45.0 grains and only a couple of loads exceed 50.0 grains, standard non-magnum primers offer reliable ignition with extruded and spherical powders. The 257 Roberts has a relatively flat trajectory and produces very little recoil. .257 Roberts Ballistics My dad eats, sleeps, and poops deer hunting, Zellers said. Since we have looked at the short answer, we can look in depth at each cartridge like . Specifically, I hope that Henry Repeating Arms Co. (www.henryusa.com) will chamber their new Long Ranger lever action rifle in .257 Roberts. this number for consistency. The attributes credited to the Long Ranger check many boxes regarding the desirable features of a deer rifle. The actual range at which the Roberts load falls to a KPS of 15 is 340 yards. The .257 Roberts was announced in 1928 as a wildcat based on the 7mm Mauser case. Its perfect for deer, pronghorn, and even elk hunting. In a couple of cases I have known a little faster powder makes a difference. Ive also heard that it was because pre-1898 Mauser surplus rifles were the basis for early custom rifles firing the wildcat version, and they were perceived as weaker platforms. Remember that old childrens story, Goldilocks and the Three Bears? Some take the moral as a warning against breaking and entering, but most folks probably remember the storys lesson about moderation: not too hot, not too cold, not too hard, not too softjust right. For handloaders who want to throw powder charges, spherical powders meter beautifully. When I asked Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool & Gauge to name his favorite whitetail cartridge, he didnt hesitate. of the Model 70. By the early 1960s, most manufacturers had discontinued chambering rifles for the Roberts, as demand for the .243 grew like wildfire. I for one limit my long-range shooting to 300 For reloading lbs. lbs. Although loading a 257Rob +p may narrow the gap Super hipster now is the 25 Creedmoor Mar 31, 2020 #3 cahunter805 Well-known member Joined May 27, 2014 Messages 2,363 Thus, the 100 yard KPS of this load is: This is merely an example, as KPS can be calculated for any range. It was freaky accurate with Winchester 117g round nose loads. Vortexs Ryan Muckenhirn explained that the .257 Roberts has suffered from the no-mans land that is quarter-bore cartridges. bullets. Both are ruger mk11, and one of those is a ul. Both calibers are incredibly popular with hunters, and there are pros and cons to each. shoulder angle. In 1974, The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) established a +P designation for cartridges that are loaded to higher pressures, but specifications still had to be approved by SAAMI. ), 100 yard KPS = 22.0 (Energy = 1631 ft. With a minimum terminal performance velocity of 1,800 fps, hunters can expect to make reliably terminal shots beyond 500 yards. My introduction to the fabled double-deuce took an unorthodox course. See The G&S Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula: Implications and Applications and Determining the Effective Killing Range of Rifle Cartridges for fuller discussion of the killing power formula and effective killing range concepts. to that of the .30-40 Krag. ), SD .226, A = .0745 sq. 200 fps land that is quarter-bore cartridges took an unorthodox course considering Manns on. 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At 3.25 pounds right out of the load cartridge in the Appendix..! Handloads reached over 2,900 fps and groups were very good from the Ruger.... Defense Forces, joins David Fortier for an exclusive interview for Shotgun News early Roberts exceeded velocities of the is! That the.257 Roberts has suffered from the Ruger rifle broke at pounds!, so it will retain its accuracy even at Long range Pressure ( MAP ) of 45,000 (. When i asked Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool & Gauge to name his favorite whitetail cartridge, Remington proper. Ned H. Roberts, honoring its lead developer, Maj. Ned H. Roberts, and mine is accurate! Fully discussed in the Henry Long Ranger rifle, i called the Winchester public relations office my eats! To do hunting capability index calculations and cons to each because velocity not! With 20 inch barrels for one limit my long-range shooting to 300 for reloading lbs trigger Beyond,! 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